Monday, February 22, 2016

A Picture is STILL Worth a Thousand Words...Unless You're the PDN, and Choose to Have Neither Pictures Nor Words

We've been discussing the whole county-wide fluoridation idea since last Wednesday. Heck, even a County Commissioner has been posting here about it. And yet, not a peep, not even a hint, about this has yet to appear in the Peninsula Daily Lose.

This is something that would literally affect every single person living in Clallam County, and yet...Not even a whisper.

Which raises the obvious question: Just how much can one small town, so-called newspaper suck? How few actual facts can it contain and still call itself a source of news? I mean, yes, its offices are located on the Peninsula, I'll grant them that. But it doesn't, in fact, come out on a Daily basis. And it very frequently avoids, avoids, avoids covering real, actual News. So right there, you can see that only one-third of the name of the shameful rag is even true.

Far from being an asset to the community, the PDN is instead a sort of combination of leech and cancer. It sucks what resources it can from the town, and has spent years withering the area down, down, down into a weakened and unhealthy state. Journalism? Only if you're talking about some sort of medical journal about pathology.

Meanwhile, the community continues to be engaged and enraged over the fluoride issue, and the failure of elected officials to listen or respond in anything approaching a rational way. Even those who were thought to be on the side of the angels, like Mark Ozias, have too often turned out to be more like petty devils, searching for spare cash they can pick up with their pitchforks. It's all about the money to these aspiring "professional class" politicians, and service to the community isn't even a distant second. Find the funds, circle the wagons, and the people be damned.

But Mark Ozias didn't find this new, dark path by himself. As has been pointed out by numerous people here, he's had guidance, instructions in the art of the backroom deal from mentors Steve Tharinger and Kevin Van De Wege. And, in regards to that, a picture is still worth a thousand words.

At the back of the room, with his back to the people...
Getting instructions from Steve Tharinger.



49 comments:

  1. I've been disappointed in the PDN for years now.

    But my disappointment with Mark has only really blossomed in the last few weeks. Sad.

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  2. We get fooled every time. Sad.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep. We can't trust local candidates from either political party, and we can't trust incumbents. That doesn't usually leave a huge pool of candidates to choose from.

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  3. Do you live strictly by innuendo? It sounds very junior high schoolish-I saw you talking in the hall to so and so. We're not friends any more and I will tell everyone.

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    1. It's not innuendo to say that Mark Ozias was comfortable with discussing something (known to be controversial) that wasn't on the agenda...That he was comfortable stating his support for it in discussion...But that he ducked out before having to go on the record favoring it with a vote. Those are the facts, not innuendos.

      Now, yes, the innuendo comes from saying that this all has something to do with his closeness to Steve Tharinger. But what you call innuendo, many of us call obvious, or at least a pretty informed guess. So, as far as your success at trying to derail the subject...FAIL.

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    2. Give em hell, CK! LOL

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  4. And, speaking of Tharinger and his connection to Laura O'Neal, the very public face of the organization behind those full color placards that were sent to everyone, to influence the survey? The Laura O'Neal whose name and phone number were on the "Support the Port Angeles City Council" petitions Ed Chadd and Norma Turner were endorsing? And Kevin Van de Wege?

    Consider this, on the Washington State House Democrats site:

    Tharinger begins special session with new legislative assistant
    November 23, 2011 | By Washington House Democrats

    A new face will greet visitors to Rep. Steve Tharinger’s office just in time for the start of the 30-day special session.

    Laura O’Neal, of Port Angeles, was recently hired to be Tharinger’s legislative assistant. She will be based in Olympia for most of the special session and all of the 2012 regular session, which begins January 9.

    “Laura brings a lot of strengths to this position, and will be an excellent ambassador for the 24th District,” Tharinger said. “As she settles in to her first legislative session, I’m hoping visitors to my office will join me in helping her feel welcome and appreciated.”

    As his legislative assistant, O’Neal will manage the daily operations of Tharinger’s office and serve as a liaison between Tharinger and the communities he represents. When the Legislature is not in session, O’Neal will share a Sequim office with Linda Barnfather, Rep. Kevin Van De Wege’s legislative assistant.

    Tharinger notes that sharing office space with Van De Wege saves money, and allows the two legislative assistants to cover for each other when one is out of the office.

    “This way, our constituents will be able to reach at least one of the 24th District legislators at all times,” Tharinger said.

    Grays Harbor residents will continue to be served by the Hoquiam office of Senator Jim Hargrove, who is the third member of the 24th District legislative delegation.

    O’Neal is the former executive director of the Peninsula Dispute Resolution Center, which provides conflict resolution services to residents of Clallam and Jefferson County. Tharinger says O’Neal’s background as a certified mediator gives her the skills to remain calm and focused under pressure.

    “Just as Laura is settling in to her new job, the Legislature is convening a special session to pass a supplemental budget,” Tharinger said. “I have every confidence that she will hit the ground running and provide excellent customer service to the constituents of the 24th District, many of whom are anxious about how further cuts to state programs and services will affect them.”


    http://housedemocrats.wa.gov/steve-tharinger/tharinger-begins-special-session-with-new-legislative-assistant/

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  5. Dear Mark Ozias: You will do much better, last longer, and yes, be more successful, if you stop listening to the "professionals" and start talking with and listening to the people you represent. They are the ones who will decide your fate, not the "pros" like Steve Tharinger.

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  6. Oh, as we look into this, we se Ed Chadd and Steve Tharinger are Donors to Laura O'Neals State funded "Peninsula Dispute Resolution Center" in 2008, and the infamous Judge Rick Porter is involved, too. We see the City of Port Angeles giving her $7,000. Harold Norland is listed, along with Nippon Paper. Judith Morris, of Steve Tharingers office in Port Angeles is listed.

    Who do you recognize?

    http://www.pdrc.org/pdfs/annual_report2008.pdf

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nice find! Thanks 9:25.

      Delete
  7. And from the piece of crap "news paper":


    He criticized Van De Wege for receiving the vast majority of his funding from outside the district.

    “To me, that’s an indication he doesn’t serve the residents of District 24 as much as he does all those other contributors,” Durgan said.

    Van De Wege said PACs donate money whether candidates ask for it or not.

    “Everyone has access to me,” he added.

    His contributions include $750 from Irwin Dental Center in Port Angeles, which had a fundraiser for Van De Wege in 2011, Van De Wege said.

    Dr. Todd Irwin, who owns Irwin Dental Center, said the state dental association asked him to hold the fundraiser.

    The Washington Dental Association PAC donated $1,800 to Van De Wege’s campaign.

    Van De Wege sits on the House Health Care and Wellness Committee.

    “Anything they need to pass legislation would probably go across his desk,” Irwin said.

    “The state dental association, with their political agenda, has several legislators they were interested in, and he was one of them.”

    And yes, Laura O'Neal is in this article, too. Donating money to her boss, Steve.


    http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20121028/NEWS/310289988

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for this background/context/info. It's great stuff.

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    2. wow , all very revealing....good research!

      Delete
  8. And here: www.preventionworkscc.org/Minutes/2-09-09%20PW%20Minutes.doc we find Norma Turner, Laura O'Neal, Steve Tharinger, Jack Slowriver and others meeting at the Olympic Medical Center.

    All these span a few years.

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  9. My comment is a bit off topic, but it is in the ballpark. How do we change the minds of ALL of these council members?

    The Tourist season will pick up again int the next few months. I think that a few pithily worded signs parked along Railroad and Laurel where vehicles and foot passengers disembark from the Coho ferry warning potential tourists/customers of the dangers of dining and lodging at Port Angeles establishments due to the addition of lead and arsenic into the water as a byproduct of the Fluoride treatment in the local water. Perhaps these signs should point tourists to Sequim. Attached to the sign might be tear sheets with justifications to this bold statement in the form of the MSDS or letters from the CDC in the same vein.

    The time commitment for this isn't much. Two vehicles strategically parked. They need only be there for no more than 15/20 minutes per ferry arrival as that is all it takes to off load the passengers/vehicles.


    These signs need to be brief yet poignant, brevity being the soul of wit. They should be large and bold in color, transportable on the back of a trailer or in the back of a pickup.

    I take no joy in this idea, as it may (at first) also affect local business, but here is my rationale; These council members don't give a hoot in hell for what us peons think. Their self worth seems to revolve around being respected by those in the professional/business/political community, not by what the Hoi-Polloi think. If members of the various civic/business associations feel a threat to their livelihood by tourists taking their business elsewhere I project that these council members might be shunned out of these inner circles, these spheres of influences from which they base their self worth/ego stroking. These business people will then hold the council members to the flame to fix this issue. I'm just projecting here, but imagine how these council members would feel by not be invited to a civic luncheon at the Red Lion, the awards banquet at the Elk's Lodge or the fund raising gala at the Vern Burton... That, is my perception, I feel I am not too far off.


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    1. It takes big gestures to get the attention of little minds. I'll just say that.

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    2. Oh, and there will soon be hundreds more pretty yellow and black things to catch the eyes of all sorts of people...Maybe even Council members?

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    3. From my experience in these things, the only way to get the "old guard"s attention is to impact businesses.

      Plus, as was said previously, why should the businesses get a free ride in all this?

      Yes, people say we shouldn't do anything that might harm businesses here, but the council can, all the while saying they support businesses here? The council can vote for fluoride that makes all the organic fruits, vegetables, drinks, teas, coffees, soups, etc non-organic, thus impacting businesses all over town. But that is no problem.

      However, if we talk about making lists of businesses claiming they sell organic foods in Port Angeles, so travelers and local consumers can be informed about where they shop, THAT gets called "hurting local businesses".

      Well, BS on that. It's a free country, and I know how to make those lists. I can distribute them, and I sure don't need anyone's permission.

      Delete
    4. Given that there is STILL nothing about this in the PDN, and given that the PDN is so clearly hostile towards facts, healthy change, and, frankly, towards the very people of Clallam County, it seems like making a list of their advertisers would be a good thing to do as well. Then, use said list to go talk to those advertisers and ask them to stop spending their money propping up such a toxic presence in the community.

      Delete
    5. Boycotting the paper itself will have little to no affect. But going after their advertisers, that might do something, move someone. I'd support such an effort.

      Delete
  10. Interestingly, Laura O Neal's "Keep Port Angeles Healthy" organization is not registered with the Secretary of State as a Charitable organization. No registration as a business, either. Not registered as a Corporation in the state, either.

    Scam, scam, scam.

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    Replies
    1. Yes, yes, yes. See also: Dispute Resolution Center, as mentioned above. Scam, sham, shame.

      Delete
  11. There is a Peninsula Dispute Resolution Center (ubi 601390473) that is registered in Port Angeles (as a non profit, not a charity, just a non profit corporation).
    https://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?ubi=601390473 But I don't see Laura O'Neal listed.
    However, "Keep Port Angeles Healthy" has neither a UBI or a corporation listed. And, doing a search on her name yields no results.
    So, how do we report this failure to the state...shouldn't they have to pay taxes?
    Lets report her! http://dor.wa.gov/content/ContactUs/email/reportfraud.aspx

    ReplyDelete
  12. Just to make to make it clear, because we see trolls that show up to spout stupid things, the Laura ONeal stuff shows how sleazy the whole circle is.

    Laura ONeal fronts a fictitious organization that doesn't have to report where all the money comes from. This is the same person sitting on different committes with other "Local Democrats" we see the names of routinely. This is the person who Steve Tharinger pays $30k to be his office assistant for a year.
    This is the person cosying up to Cherie Kidd and the others.

    And, Mark Ozias is now part of that cosy little group now that sees no problem voting on something that will affect the entire county, without any public notice or prior announcement!

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  13. I find it weird that Keep Port Angeles Healthy website is registered to Cecilia Sorci who worked (before the demise of her boss last July) for Pacific Public Relations. Last April they had a meeting....PR notice here (http://stateofreform.com/news/industry/healthcare-providers/2015/04/wa-health-leaders-meet-to-address-dental-disease-april-21/) Featuring Washington Dental. DUH. Ms Sorci formerly worked for Seattle Mayor Nichols.
    So, how is it that Ms.O'Neal can have a fancy website, get donations (PDN Tom Locke said she got a $1000 donation) send out glossy mailers, put up billboards, and make signs ...but not have a UBI with the state.
    How is that?
    I have to file my state forms, regularly, why doesn't SHE?
    And, how can you hold yourself out to be a resolution center and paid by the city and county -- but not have a UBI or a corporate entity? Isn't that required?
    Who is holding our purse strings? Monkeys?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Like all those "ghost" pro-fluoride sites that never list their owner, you know there's dark money involved.

      As above, the domain "keeppahealthy.org" is registered to Cecelia Sorci of Pacific Public Affairs, Inc. According to Sec'y State, all corporate offices are held by James A. Kneeland from an address in Tumwater. Cecelia used GoDaddy to create and host the site. But I can't find who paid PPA to do this web site.

      Delete
    2. James A. Kneeland died in July, of cancer.

      Delete
    3. All these public reports are periodic, so may not be entirely up to date. PPA,Inc. doesn't have to renew until May, so new info might appear for that corp.
      But her web site registration still says what it says, and lists all contact info (registrant, admin, & technical) as an address in Ravensdale, as of "February 07, 2016."

      Delete
    4. Seattle PR firm Pacific Public Affairs.
      The campaign page for Keep PA Healthy is is a hollow shell with no passion.

      Address: 1403 3rd Ave #300, Seattle, WA 98101
      Phone: (206) 682-5066 (CenturyLink, landline)

      http://www.pacificpub.com/
      Created Date: 1997-07-10

      UBI Number 601181690

      Agent Name JOSEPH WOODS
      President,Secretary,Treasurer,Chairman

      WA Filing Date 05/25/1989

      Admin Contact
      Name: Smith, Felicia

      Email:felicia@pacificpub.com

      Ashley Bach, 206-682-5066
      ashley@pacificpub.com
      PR for Columbia Pacific Advisors, an alternative investment firm in Seattle, Wash.
      which built The Danforth, a luxury apartment tower

      -----------

      http://keeppahealthy.org/
      Created Date: 2015-09-03

      Keep Port Angeles Healthy
      PO Box 706, Port Angeles WA 98362
      KeepPAHealthy@gmail.com

      Registrant Contact
      Name: Cecilia Sorci
      Organization:
      Mailing Address: PO Box 615, Ravensdale Washington 98051 US
      Phone: +1.3608862854
      Ext:
      Fax:
      Fax Ext:
      Email:cecilia@pacificpub.com

      --------------
      https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=21&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjg9bexoOzOAhVI4WMKHek_C3Q4ChAWCEAwCg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kingcounty.gov%2Foperations%2FExecutiveServices%2F~%2Fmedia%2Foperations%2FExecutiveServices%2Fdocuments%2FAugust2012LobbyistUpdate%2Fdirectory_PDF.ashx&usg=AFQjCNGJUhcDow_MeoFPF9RKdloJMHQmVw&bvm=bv.131286987,d.cGc

      Professional Grass Roots Lobbying Group
      Lobbyist Employer = Max Vekich & Warren Aakervik Jr.

      Vekich
      Seattle Port Commission
      ILWU Executive Board
      eight-year Democratic state legislator (D-35) and a lead player in passing the state’s
      Growth Management Act. He has an impressive list of supporters, including U.S.
      Senator Maria Cantwell, US Rep. Jay Inslee, US Sen. Maria Cantwell, State House
      Speaker Frank Chopp, and state representative Sharon Nelson, as well as all the
      local district Democratic organizations.

      Warren Aakervik Jr., president of Ballard Oil, which delivers fuel for the commercial-fishing industry
      Seattle Freight Advisory Board
      Pacific Fishermen, Inc. Board
      TOTEM AIR, INC. Board
      Secretary/Treasurer of the Manufacturing Industrial Council Executive Board
      SR 99 North Corridor Study Stakeholder Advisory Committee - WSDOT
      Ballard Freemasons Warren Aakervik Jr. Treasurer. warren@ballardoil.com



      Seattle Freight Advisory Board, Pacific Fishermen, Inc. Board, Totem Air, Inc. Board, and the Manufacturing Industrial Council Executive Board

      The group that is responsible for organizing folks for fluoridation in Port Angeles is a professional lobbying group, owned by two very well connected men in Seattle. One was a state legislator for 8 years; the other is president of Ballard oil. Both are board members of numerous institutions. This was not a grass roots effort, but was designed specifically to appear like one. Seattle PR firm Pacific Public Affairs is responsible for this activity that manipulates the community in favor of corporate profits.

      Delete
  14. I very recently became a US citizen...so excited to be able to cast my vote---generally I have always felt the Democratic tug but with all this BS going on why was I so excited to vote...what a let-down.:(

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  15. I saw this posted on another thread, and thought it should be brought up to the current conversations:

    "It is correct that nothing prohibits adding an item at the last minute but it is not something that should be used to be deceptive. That's what makes this sleazy. Emergencies come up - say there's a road washout and an emergency declaration has to be made in order to proceed with repairs - that's the kind of valid reason why a last minute thing would be added. But it is very much frowned upon to sneak something in - that was no emergency - it certainly could have waited and been properly publicly noticed."

    It is important to understand the scale of the deceit, the efforts certain people went through, to make this whole thing happen.

    Although the motion to fluoridate the entire county was "added", and no prior notice given to the public, there was a lot of planning and forethought that went into making it happen. There could have been time to inform the public of the groups intentions to bring the issue before the Board of Health, but the organizers decided not to. They didn't want any opposing comments to clutter up their agenda.

    But, they had time to type up the resolution, and have the "right people" make their presentations to the Board.

    This was an intentional action, and so very un-democratic.

    It is shameful that the Board members themselves did not remind the presenters that no public notice had been given.

    They all should be shown the door for their complicity in this travesty.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Although the motion to fluoridate the entire county was "added", and no prior notice given to the public, there was a lot of planning and forethought that went into making it happen. There could have been time to inform the public of the groups intentions to bring the issue before the Board of Health, but the organizers decided not to. They didn't want any opposing comments to clutter up their agenda."

      Right on target. As is:

      "They all should be shown the door for their complicity in this travesty."

      Delete
    2. I'd like to know who actually wrote that pre-prepared propaganda-spewing "resolution."

      Delete
    3. Yes, that would be a good question for Mark Ozias, wouldn't it? Who wrote this late-breaking resolution?

      Delete
  16. Report tax fraud here:
    http://dor.wa.gov/content/ContactUs/email/reportfraud.aspx

    ReplyDelete
  17. And, again, there is STILL nothing in the PDN about this.

    Not a bleeping peep.

    I guess Clotlieb's asleep?

    Hey, PDN, aren't you embarrassed to be so incredibly pathetic?

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    Replies
    1. As said before, this needs to be seen for what it is: overt blatant attempts to control the public.

      There is no credible or sane person that will not agree.

      By not covering one of the most politically divisive topics of the recent history in the area, the "powers that be" hope to keep public response to a minimum. If they don't know what is happening to them, how can they react?

      Starting with the well known and blatant ways Paul Gottlieb has intercepted, re-written, and flat out refused to publish the public's comments on regional events and affairs, we have seen how he has intentionally misrepresented what happens, to favor the status quo. Most recently, he harangued one of the people who filed Ethics Violations complaints against Cherie Kidd and Dan Gase, in what was obviously a defense of the council members. Paul Gottlieb harassed and attacked them so much, they hung up on him,. and later complained to the new published about his tactics.

      Anyone who watched the video of the now famous Cherie Kidd gavel'em down meeting knows Cherie was obviously the problem. She clearly was harassing speakers, right from the onset. But the PDN story makes it sound as if Cherie Kidd was reacting to unruly protesters, portraying her in a positive view, and her actions justified, for those who were not present. The vast majority of the area residents.

      This episode needs to be held up and seen for what it is. The local "news paper" actively trying to silence dissent. Trying to manipulate what the public knows about what is going on in their community, for the intentional and direct benefit of a few. Of relaying information important to the public intentionally deceptively. Of not relaying information important to the public, intentionally, with the apparent goals of silencing dissent, and silencing public outrage over actions taking by public representatives.

      The people need to know how they are being played by the "powers that be", with the help of the Peninsula Daily News.

      Delete
    2. Your comments are excellent, Anonymous 10:51 AM, and I'd just like to add one thought to them.

      There's no more dangerous animal than a frightened animal. Scared, cornered, they'll lash out with all they've got.

      And that's what's at play here to a great extent - FEAR. Whether it's fear of losing status, fear of losing their job, the overwhelming feature of politics in Port Angeles is fear.

      Do you think Paul Clotlieb thinks he could get a job anywhere else, in any other city or at any other newspaper? No, of course not. He knows he can't. So he's deathly afraid of losing his job, his lifeline, and will do whatever it takes - and whatever he's told - to hold onto it.

      Meanwhile, the owners of the PDN are deathly afraid of losing advertisers, their lifeblood. The advertisers, given the ever-perilous state of Clallam County's economy, are deathly afraid of losing customers - any customers.

      No one is operating from a position of confidence or courage there. That's why things are so vicious, because we're talking about people who are afraid of change, oversight, competition, honesty, outsiders, etc.

      People do ugly, destructive things in a panic. Just look at Cherie Kidd at that infamous Council meeting. That wasn't a strong, confident woman. That was a scared, pathetic little girl lashing out.

      Delete
  18. Well, at least the picture gets a bit clearer:

    " Pacific Public Affairs is a 15-year-old firm based in Seattle and Olympia.
    The firm's primary focus is major issue management and strategy to impact public policy. It represents many of the region's leading businesses and business organizations. It also works with several of the region's top law firms."

    And it seems the founder, Kneeland, died a year ago but the article is interesting and revealing:

    "A memorial service for business and community leader James “Jim” Kneeland packed Benaroya Hall June 11. Kneeland was 62 when he died June 29 after a long battle with cancer.
    The crowd was a who’s who of government, business and civic leaders and the celebration called up decades of history of the state of Washington that Kneeland quietly guided from behind the scenes.

    In the “Celebration of Life” program handed out to each of the hundreds of people who attended the memorial, one paragraph said it all and reflected the audience itself: “Governors, mayors, state legislators, members of Congress and the U.S. Senate, lawyers, lobbyists, journalists, and leaders in finance and other industries were among the many who counted Jim as a trusted friend and adviser. Aware of his Shelton roots, Jim also advocated for working men and women and the jobs they need to support families, especially in traditional industries such as forest products, fisheries, shipbuilding and energy. He was similarly at ease with a line employee or a CEO.”

    ReplyDelete
  19. Pacific Public Affairs is a 15-year-old firm based in Seattle and Olympia.
    The firm's primary focus is major issue management and strategy to impact public policy.

    Hello?!

    So, somebody is paying a high priced, secretive Seattle firm that focuses on "issue management", and public policy" that works "behind the scenes" to come to little old Port Angeles???


    Hello????

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It didn't take much to set up a GoDaddy site. Sounds more like PPA was hired & paid for more extensive purposes maybe? Wait, no one would use a private "public affairs" company to do some unregistered lobbying? Would they?

      Delete
  20. Looks like the "Step Down" signs are getting stolen!

    But, there are many more on their way, not only to replace the stolen ones, but to be ALL OVER the place!.

    We'll have to set up some motion activated cameras to see who these sign thievin' people are. Could be more fun than a barrel of monkeys!

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    Replies
    1. Damn that very first amendment! LOL

      Delete
  21. I see the Clallam Demos are having a get together this Saturday, with Mark scheduled to thank all those people "that made it all possible".

    Anybody going, going to ask those special questions?

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    Replies
    1. I sure hope so! They could also ask if there's any sort of conflict of interest in having the landlord of their Port Angeles storefront on their Executive Committee.

      Delete
  22. The motion sensor deer deterrent will shoot a blast of water at the sign pilferer. (Under $50 from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-62100-Enforcer-Activated-Sprinkler/dp/B009F1R0GC)

    Or add a personal alarm (about $15) rigged up to the sign. Instructions are here:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/18/634936/-

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    Replies
    1. LOL! Funny!

      But, imagine a picture of one of the four stealing signs! Priceless!

      Delete
  23. And as of this evening, there is still NOTHING in the PDN about this Board of Health BS. At this rate, I suspect we may see yet another article explaining that the Lincoln Theater is STILL FOR SALE before we see any sort of article about this backroom BOH move.

    How about it, PDN? Feeling ashamed enough yet? Lame enough? Whatsa matter Mr. Clotlieb, your boss not giving you enough leash to run with this one?

    ReplyDelete
  24. Have you seen Mark's totally evasive, bullshit response to all this that he sent out today?

    If you ever thought that maybe he hadn't turned into one of those mealy mouthed, non committal politicians that can and will answer you with straight up crap, well, now you know.

    No doubt left.

    ReplyDelete