Or, to fluoride, or not to fluoride.
Personally, I am still waiting for someone to show me where in either the State and/or Federal constitution governing bodies are given the authority to forcibly medicate the population. In other words, I don't believe the subject is one to be debated medically, but rather constitutionally.
But whatever way you look at it, it's a good idea to have the people weigh in on the subject. Rather obviously, a great many people care about this issue, so shame on those City Council members who voted against allowing the citizens to vote on their own fate.
Meanwhile, over at the County Courthouse...It sure seems like Mike Chapman has something stronger than fluoride in his water. Talk about, "This time it's personal..."
It was an interesting comment session at COPA city council meeting last night. The residents came out and spoke against fluoridation. They came armed with facts and figures and cited medical studies out of prestigious medical journals. The trained midicos came out with anecdotal evidence of the pain suffered by children getting their teeth drilled. It was completely unprofessional testimony but they came one after another and presented FEAR instead of FACTS. One guy asked why they had not brought real empirical studies to back up their fear-based scare tactics but of course they had none. The spineless city council decided to put the question to the voters in November. When they were contemplating fluoridation ten years ago they put it to a vote and 62% said "NO." Yet they did it anyway. Now they want another vote to take it away. Strange this council has no problem voting to spend millions of taxpayer dollars on unnecessary fake beaches on the waterfront yet when it comes to personal choice, personal health decisions, they cannot muster the courage to take a stand. If looking to this council for leadership--keep looking--leadership did not show up last night.
ReplyDeleteSo, vote in the primary (Aug 4th..ballots were mailed out) and in the election. Put two new faces on the council and change the majority.
DeleteAnyone holding elected office, who doesn't support allowing people to vote on issues of importance....doesn't deserve to hold public office. I DO NOT need Dan Gase or Brad Collins making health care decisions for me.
ReplyDeleteDan Gase needs to review his political science. He insisted (in reply to Lee's comment that this needs to have a democratic vote) that we aren't a democracy, but a republic. Uhhh, no Danny, "John Adams used the term “representative democracy” in 1794; so did Noah Webster in 1785; so did St. George Tucker in his 1803 edition of Blackstone; so did Thomas Jefferson in 1815. Tucker’s Blackstone likewise uses “democracy” to describe a representative democracy, even when the qualifier “representative” is omitted." (source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/)
DeleteTo quote the esteemed Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon..."
Gase can't help but spout wingnut bullshit. He's got a bad case of the Dick Pillings.
DeleteAnd, didn't one council hopeful align himself with the Pilling pile drivers?
DeleteTwo things - note that the vote would be an advisory vote only so the Council can consider the public opinion. Ultimately it's their decision. But agreed - pay close attention to the ones who voted against even holding an advisory vote - clearly they are not interested in public opinion and we would do well to remember who they are coming election time.
ReplyDeleteSecond - the flouride issue is hotly debated throughout the area and tends to be one of those topics the PDN likes so that they can run incendiary articles to boost readership. However, with many other issues that we need to be paying attention to, my first thought was "oh great, this will be at the top of the news for the next six months, conveniently hiding or pushing to the back pages, any other important information that we need to know about." If anything I'll be watching this blog more closely so I don't miss anything. Please folks, if you hear or see any links or news that we should know about that isn't getting a lot, or any, press, post it here! Thank you CK for this site!
You're welcome. Now - you kids brush your damned teeth!
DeleteCK, the vote at the City Council was whether or not to put the fluoride issue on the ballot in November as an advisory vote. Not whether fluoride is good or bad. Not whether government knows what's best for you, and should require you to be inoculated, or fluoridated.
ReplyDeleteBut, Gase, Collins and Downie decided the public should not be able to voice their views.
Oh, sure. The public should be able to vote them into office. No problem there.
But vote on other things? Even just a non binding advisory vote? No way, according to Gase, Downie and Collins.
They love it when people get distracted, argue among themselves, and don't hold them accountable for their bullshit.
Some background....
ReplyDeleteWhen the city signed up for this fluoride program, they agreed to pay a "penalty" to the state dental association if they dropped out of the program before ten years was up. This penalty, at the time the agreement was signed, was left blank. After the fact, it was decided that the penalty for early withdrawl would be something in the (I believe) hundreds of thousands of dollars. And this large "cost," so foolishly agreed to without even knowing what it was, is what has stymied efforts to end this fluoridation.
Another "special deal" brought to us by Karen Rogers and crew.
They signed what amounts to a blank check?
DeleteWhy does that not surprise me?
I gave a huge folder of fluoride information to Max Mania way back when, and he was on the side of those of us who wanted to get the poison out of our water. But he said that because of that (other) poison pill in the agreement, no one at the city would even consider ending the fluoridation.
DeleteI guess they were too busy finding other ways to blow holes in their budget than to care about the concerns of their own constituents. It's sickening, literally and otherwise.
ReplyDeleteMy take on the fluoride debate from last night is posted on my website: http://maroleesmith.com/2015/07/23/fluoride-debate/
And (in all seriousness) thanks for writing in, candidate Smith.
DeleteLess than 9% of primary ballots are in folks...With not much more time left.
Hey, CK! Speaking of candidates, are you still on speaking terms with Sissi Bruch?
DeleteWell, I don't think that Sissi bears me any ill will, if that helps. Do you have questions for candidate Bruch?
DeleteLet's not waste time talking or worrying about unopposed candidate Sissi Bruch, shall we? There are races that require actual decisions to be made.
DeleteThank you.
But, didn't you attend the last meeting of the Sissi Bruch Sunshine Club?
DeleteIt was decided by a unanimous vote that the fact that Sissi is unopposed reflects an electorate that is satisfied with her undeniable leadership on the City Council. That's why she is unopposed - everyone is simply in awe of her. And her leadership skills.
Wow!
Maybe they will put LSD in the water supply, so we can all be distracted, all the time. 'ohh,shiny. La lal alalalal. Happy."
ReplyDeleteWhere are the snarky photos to accompany your snarky posts? We expect more of you, CK. We expect snarky photos!
ReplyDeleteThanks for writing in, Commissioner Chapman.
DeleteYou think that...
Delete"But whatever way you look at it, it's a good idea to have the people weigh in on the subject. Rather obviously, a great many people care about this issue, so shame on those City Council members who voted against allowing the citizens to vote on their own fate."
... is snarky? No wonder the town is the way it is.
For the record...I really, really hate the word "snarky." I've just never liked it. Sorry.
DeleteIt isn't always all about you, CK.
DeleteSnarky is a great word. I couldn't live without that and kludge, botch bungle, muddle, flub, bollix and snafu. But then again, I do live in Port Angeles.
ReplyDeleteYou should work in incorporating "argle bargle" and "jiggery pokery" into your vocabulary. Those phrases are the bees knees!
Delete22-skidooo
DeleteAhem ... that's 23-skiddoo
DeleteIt's been downgraded because of inflation.
DeleteYes, fluoride is a drug, and one I'd rather not have (literally) shoved down my throat...But the drugs I'm worried about are of the "recreational" variety. So many drug-related stories in the PDN of late. Even the big heroin bust in Port Townsend centered around a woman from Port Angeles. They say drugs flourish where hope has died. Well, we sure have a lot of drugs here.
ReplyDeleteInteresting facts about the "scourge of drugs". 6 million people die each year because of tobacco. Over 3 million die each year because of alcohol.
DeleteAnd, of course, those figures don't list all the people alive, but damaged in some way by alcohol and tobacco. The ruined lives, lost relationships, lost body parts (cut out because of cancer), crimes committed while drunk, etc.
The total annual deaths, world wide, because of ALL "illicit" drugs? Heroin, cocaine, meth, etc? 250,000.
But, corporations and governments make so much money on those drugs that result in 10 million plus deaths each year.
Last Tuesday night at the Port Angeles City Council meeting a throng of dentist and other local medicos including Dr. Scott Kennedy, Chief Medical Officer at Olympic Medical Center and Dr. Tom Locke, longtime Clallam County Medical Officer came to “testify” before the city council on the importance of keeping fluoride in the drinking water. They gave only anecdotal evidence of children screaming while getting their teeth drilled. They brought only fear and no empirical evidence of the efficacy of fluoridated water.
ReplyDeleteOn the other side, dozens of blue-collar types came to plead with the council to stop medicating residents against their will. They came with peer-reviewed articles from prestigious scientific journals. These articles explained why all the European countries have discontinued use of fluoride in their drinking water. They presented articles showing the damage done by extended use of fluoride and how it causes bones to become brittle and causes pock-marked teeth. The blue-collar types brought scientific proof and the professionals brought only fear.
When I was a small boy Mom would take me and my brothers to the dentist. We usually had cavities and usually got our teeth drilled and filled. Upon getting out of the dentist’s chair the dentist would always reach into his top drawer and hand me a sugary lollypop for “being such a good boy.”
Now I realize this was job security on the part of the dentist. Keep giving kids sugary treats for being “such a good boy” and he was sure we would keep getting cavities and keep coming back.
Now, fast forward to the present. The local dentists, as well as the national dentists’ association want everyone to have fluoride in their tap water. They know this causes fluorisis and other problems with teeth and bones. They know this is their best gambit to ensure their continued livelihood. As long as your tap water causes dental problems they can be sure to keep their successful practice throughout their work life and even into retirement if they are smart enough to sell an ongoing practice.
During the past ten years of putting fluoride in the drinking water these two medical officers could have (and should have) carried on an empirical experiment to prove their contention that fluoride is good for you. Here on the peninsula they have a captive audience. The data would have been incontrovertible. They did not bother to carry out such an experiment. They know such experiments have already been done in other places and they know the results would not prove their case nor would it even create doubt in the minds of those forced to keep drinking tainted water.
I accuse these dentists and the doctors of fear-mongering and deception. At the very least they were unprofessional in their attempts to persuade the people and the council. Fear always works but it is never a valid argument when dealing with people’s health.
Shame on them and shame on the city council for not putting an end to this poisoning of the populace. I urge every voter to work for the removal of those on city council who will not make a firm stand to end this madness.Demon-eyed Dr. Kennedy
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