Will they or won't they? That's the question. Will the Port Angeles City Council vote to ban fireworks within city limits, or will they go with the status quo?
In a sense, I have mixed feelings about this issue. On one hand, to me, banning fireworks is a no-brainer. They're totally unnecessary, incredibly disruptive and potentially dangerous, and, at best, are a source of trash, smoke and other pollution. Who needs 'em?
Celebrate American freedom by blowing up cheap garbage
made in China! God bless us everyone?
On the other hand, it's harmful to set up laws and bans that you don't have the resources to actually enforce. The City already announced it doesn't have the resources to enforce traffic laws - do you really think they'll be able to enforce a fireworks ban if it passes? Would police officers really give out tickets? Or would it be a wink and nod system - like so much in Clallam County - that really only serves to reinforce the narrative that Clallam County is wide open when it comes to breaking the law? (See also today's story about the back-and-forth moves of Clallam County's code enforcement, as well as the recent stories of burglary victims having to solve their own crimes.) Could an unenforceable ban actually serve to further cynicism about the efficacy of local government?
Let's face it, a fireworks ban would be a change, and the Port Angeles City Council is remarkably resistant to change. The first time I remember this issue actually being discussed was years ago, when Max Mania got on the Council. He and then Fire Chief Dan McKeen tried to push it forward, and got no support from other Council members. The City Council has essentially the same makeup now as it did then (all those uncontested elections), but McKeen is now City Manager. Is that enough of a change to make change?
I guess we'll see which way the wind seems to be blowing next Tuesday night...Bring your popcorn.
I don't know how the council is going to come down on this - though I wouldn't be surprised to see them ask staff to "study" the idea more, in order to delay having to make a decision - I don't see it being enforceable if a ban is passed. I don't see our local police officers being willing to actually issue tickets. I don't see our local (elected) judges being very willing to come down on these cases either. No one wants to make waves here, so any so-called changes are likely to be purely cosmetic, and not functional.
ReplyDeleteWe can enforce our laws but we have to have a police chief with the mindset of enforcing the law. Presently the chief is treading water until his retirement in a year or two. He won't make any waves if he can help it. He is young enough to run for sheriff so don't expect any heroic measures out of him. A fish rots from the head down so here again the problem rests with city council. Actually, the problem rests with a population so beaten down as to think they can do nothing to correct the many problems facing us. The only remedy is doable. Elect new city council members who really want to see us climb out of this morass of cronyism and self dealing.
ReplyDeleteAs pointed out here, these "efforts" are all of a piece here. False fronts, no more intended to work than McEntire's "economic development efforts" are intended to create jobs. Representative government at its lamest and worst.
ReplyDeleteI bet on deferral for more study - till mid-July. The last time this came up, the following Fourth was remarkably better-behaved (my neighborhood anyway). I recall there not being a lot of public outcry after that, and it fell off the radar. That might work again. That said, the damn concussion grenade thingies are just f'n silly & stupid. G.d. windows rattling, pets & wild critters terrified, fingers blown off, no one sleeps till 4 in the morning It's over the top. I just leave town anymore. I don't mind the sparks, just the racket.
ReplyDeletePat Downie will say he sees both sides of the issue.
DeleteCherie Kidd will say a lot of nothing.
Sissi will say "Gosh" at least once.
And Mayor Dan DiGuilio will help steer the Council towards directing staff to further "investigate" the "impacts" that similar bans have had in other communities.
On the public comment side, I just hope that pillar of partisanship, Dick Pilling, is there to say something.
The underlying lack of courtesy and consideration for your neighbors and community that is the real cause of this problem will be unaffected by this ban, when and if it is passed. Fireworks are a symptom, not a cause.
ReplyDeleteIf we ban fireworks then the terrorists have won.
ReplyDeleteFor a lot of us, fireworks make Port Angeles unlivable one day a year. So even if this ban is passed, and even if it works, what can the city do to make the other 364 days a year better and more livable? That, to me, is the real question.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you ponder that question while you are away visiting Canada over the 4th of July?
DeleteWhoops! While *you're* visiting Canada sorry about my grammar. I went to Port Angeles High School. You can't learn much in a building like that.
DeletePssst. How did Canada come into this discussion?
DeleteThere is no 4th of July celebration in Canada. It is safe there.
DeleteAnd here we go again. Port Angeles is talking about banning fireworks and Clallam is talking about "cleaning up" people's yards (which can be a damn slippery slope right there)... And in the meantime we've got increased drug use, increased break-ins, more murders, car chases, violent and non-violent crimes, a revolving door in our jails...
ReplyDeletePriorities, anyone? I guess it doesn't matter if some meth head breaks in and steals your stuff, as long as Clallam is sitting in your driveway making sure your lawnmower isn't sitting out.
My first question is this: How many other communities across the US have banned fireworks? 2% 5% 10% I don't know. If I had to guess, I would say a very small number of communities have banned fireworks. Second question: How many residents (not just the narrow group of people Cherie Kidd talks with) in Port Angeles actually favor banning fireworks. Again, I would guess a small minority. Third question: When is the City Council going to ban Christmas?
ReplyDeleteToo bad the police don't enforce the laws we have. If people would stop making noise after the curfew, and if the large explosions (which aren't legal) stopped, then who would care? The problem are the IDIOTS who think that starting the fireworks at 4 in the afternoon, and keeping it up until 4 in the morning (like some of the dunce neighbors I have) would get tickets, and fines -- there wouldn't be a problem. But the way it's been, the cops don't do anything, and the idiots do whatever they want.
ReplyDeleteDepending on the state up to 50% of the towns ban fireworks. A couple of state have banned all fireworks. Areas with high fire danger, or dense urban populations ban fireworks. Seems that the better educated, wealthier communities have bans in place, while the moronic red-neck poor areas have no bans.
ReplyDeleteI guess it just depends on what kind of community you want to live in.
And, we should really think about this -- because with the lack of snow, this could be a tinder-dry summer -- we might end up with a towering inferno.
Please cite your sources . . . . . .
Deletefor this state: http://www.wsp.wa.gov/fire/docs/fireworks/ordinances.pdf
DeleteThe more densely populated have bans, and the better educated, more affluent areas have bans. See for yourself.
For other states...you have to look at each, individually. Four states have blanket bans (no sales, no discharge). Those are Delaware, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York. These account for 11.4% of the US population. Nearly every other remaining states (46) has bans in about 50% of the counties, and in some states, like California, the towns that allow fireworks are very minimal in most counties, and those that allow them, have severe restrictions.
Did you have to bring in that "educated and affluent" thing? The next thing you'll be pointing out is the correlation between education and income levels. Are you saying that all the above mentioned "blue" states with higher education and income levels have banned fireworks? Where are you going with this? I suppose the next you'll say is that people from blue states are healthier, wealthier and generally, better off than people from red states . . . and that red states have higher levels of welfare. Come on, I know better . . . I listen to FOX News. I know that access to healthcare for all is anti-American socialism. Real Americans don't need help - they pull up their boot straps and roll up their sleeves. Isn't it funny: the states that are the most progressive and forward thinking are blue states. They also happen to be the wealthiest - not what you would think from bleeding heart pinko commies who just happen to be living the American Dream. Could there be a correlation between banning fireworks and living the American Dream? Just maybe . . . . .
DeleteI don't give a damn about what color you are projecting (blue/red) which sounds like it's some b.s. from the Matrix. I have no idea what you are blathering about.
DeleteHowever, the truth is, the smarter people are, the more money they make, and the less they spend on bullshit like fireworks to "celebrate" a country that they don't give a damn about (as shown by how they don't vote, don't participate, and the only focus is on what freebies they can glean).
You don't understand because you have a "red state" mind . . . obviously, the smarter people make more money and they don't buy fireworks to celebrate a country they don't give a damn about - thats your simple-minded explanation for how our country works?
DeleteYou need to stop watching the bogus media, and start reading, more. Red state mind? No, I'm looking at the places with bans, and noting the socio/economic obviousness of it all. You're a local raised, dimwit, aren't-cha?
DeleteAnonymous 11:23PM: I allowed your comment, but mainly so I could comment on it, and this thread within this topic. Might I suggest we save the name-calling - like "local raised dimwit" - for the locally raised dimwits who are, say, holding public office, rather than descending into the usual, hateful, Tom Harper-styled name-calling BS exchanges between each other? Can we agree to disagree - and exchange ideas - while reserving the real venom for those who most deserve it?
DeleteSure sure. I just get tired of the locals around here thinking that "faux news/bogus media" can reduce everything to red/blue thinking. Use your minds, folks. Read both sides, and come up with your own, original thoughts on the matter. The fact that the areas which have a higher socio-economic rating, also have banned fireworks isn't a comment on how they vote. (There are conservative areas -- like all of Orange County, that have bans, and there are liberal enclaves that do, as well.) The knee-jerk b.s. is so endemic in this area, that it drives me crazy. If people would THINK, they wouldn't parrot back this pre-digested, slanted, inaccurate vile b.s. But, then again, I AM in Clallam County....home of corrupt government, newspapers that can't report, and schools that fail to educate. Gotcha, CK. Sorry.
DeleteAs someone who lives less than a mile from city limits, I'm opposed to banning fireworks in city only. Unless you expand it outward until you get to non-populated areas, all you're going to do is push people east and west. I'm worried city residents will treat the neighborhoods just outside city limits like the spit. All those "illegal" fireworks will be set off a couple blocks from city limits.
ReplyDeleteSorry, "non-populated areas" should have been "sparsely populated areas". My bad.
DeleteI'm not so sure the city doesn't have the policing resources needed to do the things other towns do. In looking at what the Chief has been saying over the last year, and looking at the state stats, things are not adding up.
ReplyDeleteMore on this at a later date.
But, but...If this so-called ban doesn't cover the fireworks you can buy at fireworks stands, the kinds that make so much smoke and noise, and cause so many of the problems people are upset about, then this so-called ban isn't really a ban at all, is it?
ReplyDeleteRight. So if I'm reading the PDN articles correctly, this "ban" doesn't cover the easily available, legal fireworks, it just covers those already considered illegal. But, uh, aren't those ALREADY CONSIDERED ILLEGAL? Am I missing something here? Sure looks like a PR move from the city, but not any sort of actual rule.
DeleteInteresting Public Comment session at tonight's city council. Almost as many for the ban as against it. Polite civil discourse. One guy kept saying he was in the Touristism business. He was against the ban. Might hurt "touristism."
ReplyDeleteAll people are not public speakers. You may feel superior that you caught his grammatical error, but I assure you, you are not. In fact, I would say the opposite. Public humiliation is not cool.
DeleteThe ban could very well hurt tourism. My cousins are coming to visit us on the 4th of July, from Australia, because they do not have fireworks there.
The group of 37 who want the ban were there.
I keep chuckling about the woman who has a fire EVERY YEAR.
Well, given that my neighbors have 20-30 cars come on the 4th and they must spend a thousand dollars on fireworks (that go on for hours, and hours), I think the only "tourism" are the kinfolk, and cousins that show up.
DeleteAccording to testimony tonight a cop has to personally witness illegal use of fireworks before he can cite them.
ReplyDeleteHow come when you punch someone in the face they'll take his word for it?
That is a way that cops don't have to enforce the laws -- it's a policy, a local interpretation, not how the law is written. Kick our Chief in the ass, and tell him to enforce the laws we have on the books.
DeleteA ban on fireworks would be impossible to enforce, a total waste of time for the police and court system. It just seems like more meddling from joyless buzzkillers.
ReplyDeleteThe laws that exist should be enforced, and there should be citations. Let the courts figure out who is guilty or innocent. The cops should be allowed to cite, and give nuisance tickets. If I were mowing my lawn at 2am, I'd get one. If my dog is said to bark at 4am, and a neighbor complains, the cops don't have to hear it. So, if my idiot neighbor decides to keep setting off fireworks until 2am, there should be some recourse.
DeleteI saw that 9,000 people are sent to the ER in the US each year because of fireworks. 3,000 of them children. $32 million in property damage.
ReplyDelete9,000 people is half the entire population of this town.
Can't enforce? Is that what other towns with bans experience?
I'm not a big fan of fireworks, but the noise and litter is short-lived. However, the pet owner camp that is worried about their animals psyche during pyrotechnics should also consider the negative impact of their pets on adjoining neighbors 24/7/365. Lots of barking, feces and additional consumerism (an entire genre of greenhouse gas producing pet stuff).
ReplyDeleteYou're right! Let's pass an ordinance requiring all pets to be euthanized. Then one for wildlife. Damned noisy birds!
DeleteLets include euthanize all humans, because humans do more damage to the world than any other species.
DeleteOr ease up on pet ownership so we don't bury ourselves in the 62.5 million pounds of poop dogs in the US produce daily.
DeleteYeah, except humans account for 200 million tons of human waste -- so, dog excrement is just a drop in the bucket. Get rid of humans, and the world would be a much happier place for every other living animal.
Delete